Winter-Friendly Cache Icon

[JimandLinda]

CodeJunkie and I have been bantering back and forth on what the SNOWFLAKE icon means.
Does it mean it’s above the average snow depth?
Does it mean you can get it on XC skis, snowshoes, etc.?
Does it mean the cache is on the ground, in a tree hole below the knees, under a rock?

We are curious how the many cache hiders use the icon.

Our comment:
I like hiding caches in winter, with deep snow, so I know that it is findable in all seasons. The only problem we have is if the snow is 3 feet high, and your putting the cache head high while standing on the snow, it will be 3 feet over a cachers head when the snow melts!
We have 2 that are so unfriendly in winter that we disable them for the white stuff.

Since that season is soon upon us, what is your opinion? ❓

[Mister Greenthumb]

The icon means available in winter. Depending on how determined you are all caches are actually available in winter. The only time I place it on a cache that I’ve hidden is if it’s at least 1 foot above the ground and I expect you would have no more trouble in winter than any other time of the year. Someone just placed a roadside cache 2 miles from our house that has the icon on. It’s along side a road that has had at least 3′ of snow from plowing and drifting along side it every year in the 30 years that I have lived here. If you do a lot of winter caching you will probably begin to notice who’s caches are truly winter friendly or not. I’m known as using holes in trees and hide very few on the ground. Winter buried hides just end up needing more maintenance.

[RJ McKenzie]

I think they should change the terminology from Available in Winter to Winter Friendly. Most all caches are available in winter but not all are winter friendly and buried in the snow.

[-cheeto-]

I placed a cache making light of this same question once before 😉

I also added a “winter friendliness rating” to the cache page for most of my caches and it describes in actual words what you are in for if you hunt that particular cache in the winter. Sometimes it can also be used as a hint while hunting at any time.

Like any attribute it’s subjective in it’s use and will always suffer “misuse” which all depends on your opinion of it’s use.

It will be good to see a consensus here on what everyone thinks the attribute *should* mean.

I don’t have very many caches that I have placed this attribute on. I don’t consider it to be “winter friendly”. In the attributes limited definition it’s available in winter or not. I probably have more caches with the “not available in winter” attribute which I use on those caches that I place on the ground or under things on the ground. I figure if I use that icon I’m helping out the number hungry winter cachers who use that attribute to filter their PQ’s in the winter.

[sandlanders]

If you use either the “available” or “not available” icon, just elaborate in the cache page text: OK unless there is deep snow, on a snowmobile trail, good one for skis or snowshoes, park is closed, gate is closed, treacherous ice conditions, rocks are slippery, harder to find, etc. Sometimes cache owners even use “winter friendly” as a year-round hint, which we take to mean that it is off the ground somewhat or look up.

(Sorry for repeating some of what Cheeto just said. He snuck in his post while I was typing mine.)

[MuddyBottoms]

I know where this conversation started..lol. I put the snowflake on any cache I think someone could find with a normal amount of snow on the ground. Not only will they be above snow level, but not covered in snow…covered by bark, in a hollow tree, where the snow will not physically touch the cache. J&L you have done my Ripon parks tour…Murray Park, Horner etc are all winter friendly in my book…but the final is most definitely not. A few hides on our new Mascoutin Valley Trail series may be questionable, I will play those by ear and make updates if needed.

[sandlanders]

After caching the past two winters, I just want to see what winter caching is like without knee-deep snow on the ground!

[CodeJunkie]

Considering I haven’t cached yet in the snow, I may be speaking out of turn here or not be quite clued into the normal expectations. I have spent hundreds (probably thousands) of hours in the woods and on trails in the winter for a variety of activities over the years and completely understand the challenges associated with the fluffy (or sometimes not so fluffy) white stuff. Checking traps in the snow has to be almost equivalent in difficulty to caching from my experience so far. The caches that got JimandLinda and I discussing this are along a biking / walking / snowmobile trail. All the caches have both the “snowflake” and “snowmobile” icon. The discussion arose when discussing how easy / difficult these would be to find with snow on the ground or the other challenges that come with the territory.

When these were placed they were placed with the intention of adjusting them to make them more “winter friendly” before the snow flies, but we wanted to get the series started before the white stuff comes. Considering we covered 10 miles of trail we didn’t take a full arsenal of gear because of distance, weight, etc. As they were placed notes were taken regarding the upgrades that are required to make them better. The plan was to get them placed and then adjust as needed to keep them winter available. As caches are moved up in the vertical direction or modified to protect them an “owner maintenance” note would be added and the description would be updated to reflect such changes.

I know from a number of other threads (i.e. roundabouts) that everyone has an opinion, suggestion, etc. and I’m glad Jim posted this. I think it should turn into an interesting discussion and great learning opportunity.

[CodeJunkie]

Just something else to ponder. The “Snowmobiles Allowed” icon means you can arrive near the cache via a sled, but does it infer the cache is “Winter Friendly”?

[marc_54140]

When I use this icon, I take it to mean well above snow levels.

[Ray]

My personal opinion is that the icon should only be used when the cache is hidden in a ski lodge, with a good fire going in the fireplace and a pot of hot cider nearby. 😀

[PCFrog]

I utilize the icon to mean that the cache will be not only accessible in the winter but retrievable in the snow. This does not mean it above snow level only that if there is snow, you will still be able to get it.

[-cheeto-]

@Trudy & the beast wrote:

My personal opinion is that the icon should only be used when the cache is hidden in a ski lodge, with a good fire going in the fireplace and a pot of hot cider nearby. 😀

Sounds good to me! 😀

Probably just about every cache that’s indoors and that building is accessible in the winter is probably both “available in winter” and “winter friendly” 😀

Start hiding more indoor caches!

[Team Black-Cat]

@Trudy & the beast wrote:

My personal opinion is that the icon should only be used when the cache is hidden in a ski lodge, with a good fire going in the fireplace and a pot of hot cider nearby. 😀

Haven’t seen one like that yet, but it sounds pretty good! 🙂

My thought on the snowflake attribute is that it is whatever the cache owner wants it to mean, so not very reliable. Even with a cache that is winter friendly, Wisconsin weather can really change things. With the thaw/rain/hard freeze we had last winter, every cache that GMO and I hunted the next weekend was frozen solid. Even some easy ones were not findable because of ice.

The only truely winter friendly cache is one that’s been found since the last snow fall. 😆

[TyeDyeSkyGuy]

I use the icon on any cache that I feel the difficulty rating I’ve posted to the cache page, would not have to be changed due to snow depth. I use the crossed out version for any cache that I know not to be accessible in snow. But then I only have used it a few times, and currently on only one cache. Match Head gets disabled for winter because it’s usually buried in 3-5 feet of ice at the end of a breakwater on Lake Michigan.

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