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In theory you can leave the christmas themed caches up year round 🙂

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Let’s please keep this thread discussing the idea of the workshop and ideas about it. Much appreciated.

Interesting poll results thus far. Looking at the poll, I only set it to Yes/No to see how many’s yes’s I get not necessarily how each of them weighs in but that’s good to know too.

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Oh yeah, cheetos for everyone too. 4 varieties including those jalepeno ones giz likes and the flamin hot ones.

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Per T&B’s great idea I have moved it to a new thread. Please add feedback there versus here. Now this thread can be returned to whatever it was doing before I interrupted..

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looks like the “preliminary event” has been cancelled. lol 🙄

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I also think it could be handled via a number of different threads on the Puzzle forum itself, similar to Marc’s big cipher thread. Basically, how to do this, how to do that, and so on.

I love the idea of putting it on the forums. What would be cool is to do both in-person presentation and also on the forum snippets of each topic. I do think however that many people learn by seeing and hearing rather than reading so that would be why both would be great.

Perhaps this might be workable into the upcoming WGA event??? Have we ever done class type presentations at the camping events before? I figure this might be a good way to gain a bigger audience of the group than just having a local event in my area. However, holding a class would require a projector of some sort. Not sure if we can do that at a campout event or not.

I used to have access to a portable projector but I don’t any longer.

If there is enough interest in this idea, I would like to ask for at least one more volunteer to help me work on it so it’s not just my ideas and my opinions. Anyone want to raise a hand?

Also, I will continue to watch this thread and ask that if anyone has any other things related to creating a puzzle cache that they would like covered, please speak up and share your ideas!

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Actually, I too was thinking it was a real event…

On a slightly related note…

A few weeks prior to all this business about solving puzzles or not and tours I was thinking it would be fun to put on an event to teach others how to place new puzzle caches (rather than solving/finding them).

It would be pretty informational because a. It would teach traditional cache placement techniques – location, permission, container choice, getting coords b. It would teach things like determining bogus coords and other puzzle specific cache creation topics. C. It would cover submitting the cache page including some simple html tips (which is almost always necessary for puzzle caches) and how to place pictures in the gallery and then reference them on the page (so cachers dont have to “go into the gallery” or view them from photobucket which is blocked by one of my internet sources and really annoying) D. It would cover creating geochecker and evince checkers and putting them on the cache page.

It would be pretty simple to either create a brand new cache or recreate the steps to making one that already exists (or is in the works) in front of an audience while showing tips and tricks that have been learned from experience.

I think this would interest not just people who might want to try hiding a new puzzle cache but also those looking to solve them. Reason being is they would see the puzzle process “from the other side” so to speak. They might hear a tip or 2 from “my perspective” on creating new puzzles that will certainly help in solving puzzles (mine and others out there).

Feedback? Worth putting together?

I certainly would not mind putting on “a class” if there was enough interest out there. Perhaps it might spark new interest in some creative people out there to place a few new ones that I would get to go find 🙂

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I’ll bring the golf balls on a string and pvc pipe game and some cheezy brat soup.

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watch out, gotta run is setting the pace for the rest of the pack…. some great cache finds in their recent (and yet to be) submitted points.

It’s great to see so many names on the list for January and so many with multiple reports.

still a bitter cold week left in January…

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did he beleive you weren’t crazy? you don’t mention handcuffs or frisking so I assume so…

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Yeah but I already knew that information and I still can’t solve 2 of em! 😳

But don’t fret, I haven’t worked all that hard either. There are others out there I’ve been cracking lately.

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FYI – I answer every person who ever asks me questions about my puzzle caches. I am sure there are many who van attest to how “generous” I am with helping them solve them.

I simply don’t beleive in putting out caches for the sole purpose of watching people struggle. Some may think that is the case “in the puzzle business” but not with this owner.

I actually despise cryptic puzzle cache pages with little to go on and “having to guess what the owner was thinking”. (yeah I made at least few cryptic ones in the past but I give generous hints either on the page or if asked) I don’t hate them and I don’t formally ignore them but I rarely “go to that section of the bookstore” (following my analogy from the tour thread). In fact, I beleive Wis Kid, our reviewer who reviews most of our new puzzle caches will also condone the “guess what I am thinking” type caches, at least he has with me in the past and I know his stance on these types. He will probably still publish them but he may question the owner before doing so, which I think is a good practice to follow myself.

Personally, I would rather see all puzzles have enough hints to get you on your way. You may still struggle and be puzzled but at least your not staring at 10 rows of numbers with no hints at all.

Also, I am certainly not afraid to ask the owner or another cacher for a tip or help. Because I tend not to pay too much attention to the cryptic one’s (unless they become lonely….) I rarely need much help. For instance, I’ve never looked at Sagasu’s 5-star cryptic mess and only stared at Carol for Papr dolls for less than a minute. I look at at them to know enough to look elsewhere for my entertainment and education.

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Oh, and if “art’s not your thing” and you don’t ever want to learn anything more on the subject than you already know you can always skip the Artisans of Appleton cache. This I can come up with a better analogy for. It’s like someone who reads a lot and has certain favorite kinds of books. That person is unlikely to walk into a book store and purchase a type of book they don’t enjoy reading.

There is nothing that says you should find every cache around your house nor any time limits on how long it might take to do so.

People who love to go to movies usually don’t watch every movie that comes out in the theatres.

I have several caches close to home remaining that I am sure to enjoy. Life is to short not to continue learning as I go. I for one am very glad I grew up in the Appleton area and discovered geocaching.

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have to agree with Marc. In fact, one of the best finds on what I would consider to be one of my hardest puzzles (Signs) was a find by a real good geo-buddy who had not solved the puzzle. Oh he tried and tried but couldn’t come up with it. So, he set out to the area where he thought it might be and walked around for hours in the woods until he stumbled upon it. In my book, definitly a worthy find, and one he earned. He obviously put in as much time as anyone who has solved the puzzle.

And yet you actually ALSO agree with s|s here. You state that your buddy worked on the puzzle first correct? It sounds like he put a lot of effort into making the solve first. You are the cache owner here so, did he experience what you wanted him to? Did you want him to learn anything? Did he? Do you admire his stick-to-itness for continuing to try to solve it?

I think your story does not necessarily indicate that you are on either side of this particular fence. You may agree with marc but it sounds like in this example given, it actually satisifies what s|s is trying to convey to everyone in this thread. Your geobuddy worked hard on the puzzle and then came up with another way to make the find. Not to put words in Alex’s mouth here but that’s not what he is talking about here. Quite the contrary actually. Let me equate your story to one of his caches and see how it sounds….

My geobuddy goes and works really hard on solving Artisans of Appleton | Just for the Brunn of It (formerly known as Art History 101 for those in the area) an s|s puzzle cache. He sees some great local art. Goes on the internet and reads a bunch of online art history information and tries to pinpoint “who’s who” but just can’t line them all up right (this is very close to what happened with me as I know nothing about art). Finally, he “goes on a hunch” and searches where he thinks it is based on past logs and proximity rules (one of marc’s many techniques that I do agree with based on the circumstances…) and your geobuddy lucks out and makes the find.

Sounds to me like your geobuddy experienced what s|s intended and he definitely did not short change himself. Perhaps he enjoyed learning about art history. Perhaps he enjoyed viewing some great local sculptures on display in someone’s front and back yards.

Okay, now let’s say it’s a different geobuddy. He’s in town for the week and visiting with someone else. He has a bunch of caches to find and so does who he is staying with. They go out and find them all and one of them is the final for this same art history cache. They never saw the art. They never went online and learned anything. Yeah they don’t know what they missed but I do and I feel sorry for them.

As I say in my previous post, let’s just not encourage folks to get a home run when sometimes 2nd and 3rd base are much more fun. (very bad analogy here… cuz I’m not really talkin baseball if you catch my drift..)

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I posted a note to s|s’s afformentioned cache in response to his afformentioned apology. Originally I wasn’t going to post it here but that was before reading the new posts on this thread (man it’s busy in here..)

So here is my note. I still agree with it even after reading the newer posts on right vs wrong, rules, expectations, and all that.

As I state below this is a commentary based on how the puzzles caches are played in the Fox Valley and may not necessarily equate to a general rule for all areas of the state. It’s a commentary about Marc teaching Fox Valley area cachers (and some who travel from further) that are either new to the game or new to puzzles about “his” way, meanwhile those folks don’t read these fourms nor hear from cache owners like s|s that want them to appreciate, learn, explore while doing their caches (puzzle and all) rather than increase their find count by one more.

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I think what would help is to stop expressing the opinion that sharing puzzle solves is universally accepted. The “any way you get it” attitude about solving a puzzle is not universally accepted by all cache owners in the Fox Valley. Nor is caching tours finding puzzles caches.

I didn’t attend any of the recent puzzle events (for no other reason than I am just busy) but I’ve been to one before and that is really the message that was said then and I don’t expect it’s changed much based on marc’s responses on the forums.

Perhaps at a minimum we should stop sharing this mentality and stop literally “teaching” it to newer cachers. It’s your (marc’s and maybe other’s) opinion but it certainly doesn’t have to be the opinion of all new cachers that come along and discover puzzles. If they come to this conclusion on there own that’s one thing. However, if they hear from a bunch of other area cachers (and puzzle cache owners in this particular case) that it’s “okay” to get the solve any way possible including getting the actual coords from someone else then I beleive you are hurting the future of the “game” as it is played in our area. To a new cacher, the game is played based on learning from others. That’s how everyone learns a new hobby.

I would post this opinion on the forums but I really think this is local commentary and not really necessary to say elsewhere.

Let’s move on now…

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