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provided explicit permission was gotten from the proper government officials for EVERY listing.

This is along the lines of what I commented to in some private emails to others.

I know typically Groundspeak volunteer reviewers “take your word” on permission as long as the placement is not in an area that requires explicit permission stated on the page or in reviewer notes i.e. DNR land, certain municipalities requiring forms, known private land such as walmart parking lots, etc.

I also believe that these placements could be “prevented” rather than “banned” by giving them a bit more scrutiny on the review process. I know it’s not always possible to determine “what’s in a roundabout”, especially since they are popping up as new construction. However, when it’s evident that they are in a roundabout intersection (stated in the listing, or hints about traffic, etc) perhaps they should be given extra scrutiny on explicit permission like IowaAdmin is doing

Yeah it’s being subjective (requiring explicit permission here but not there) on the review process, but isn’t it always subjective really anyway?? Otherwise we wouldn’t need volunteer reviewers.

I highly doubt Groundspeak would add this to their list of off-limit placements. However, as Geocachers in Wisconsin we could prevent these types of placements in our region.

I urge those out there to avoid hunting these caches if you feel that you may be injured or cause a traffic accident. If you do log one (because you need the smiley to add to your thousands of others) please log how disastisfied you are with the irresponsible placement of a cache. If you attempt a cache like this, and you feel it’s an inappropriate placement, don’t feel afraid to post a note to the page or contact the owner. Yeah we should not all be “cache cops” but an inappropriate cache is an inappropriate cache.

Perhaps this is how they get “banned”. Not explicitly but through doing everything we can to prevent them in the first place and if they already exist or “slip through” then they go away through this “natural selection” others have talked about.

This was not my original position on this subject but it’s been interesting to formulate a much more reasonable opinion based on 4+ pages of discussion and the poll results thus far.

I am sure my post will now spawn further discussion which is great!

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Thanks Jeremy for fixing the Subject of the Thread to match the Poll question. My apologies if this caused confusion on the poll. It was not intended.

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Interesting and yes, very subtle.

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The top one reminds me of the scenery in Peninsula State Park in door County that my family enjoyed when we hiked the Eagle Trail there. No cache on that trail though 🙁

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There was an event recently where someone led a group of cachers on bikes and the point was to hunt a specific long multi cache.

I am curious. How did that “fly”?

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@gotta run wrote:

@-cheeto- wrote:

safety is at the discretion of everyone caching.

Yes but are you referring to the safety of the cacher or the safety of the general public? 2 totally different things.

Not really. You have to make your own decision when you come up to GZ. We’ve driven away from places for various safety reasons.

If you drive up and it’s a tree, and you don’t want to climb a tree, you don’t climb it.

If it’s a cliff, and you don’t want to fall too your doom, you don’t go on it.

If it’s a roundabout, and it’s against your better judgment not to go in it, don’t.

There’s no need to be the cache police.

You did not respond to my comment at all which was that there is a large difference between a person choosing to participate in a “risky activity” and potentially injuring themself versus that person entering the intersection and causing an accident which would potentially injure others.

By “banning”, I am really referring to including the interior of modern roundabout intersections in the “Off-Limit (Physical) Caches” section of the “Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines”. This poll is about whether the general geocaching population in Wisconsin would favor this action or not. Simply put, should this type of cache placement be banned?

I think everyone is interested in debating this and also learning about the legality. If anyone has any actual facts pertaining to local ordinances or state/federal laws or DOT stances on pedestrians in the middle of these intersections that would be helpful information to post as well.

My post was not to question if this is currently allowed because obviously it is or there wouldn’t be a bunch of them published. My question involves your opinion on whether they Should not be allowed.

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all I can do is publish the cache.

Technically, you could take a different stance on this as a reviewer. You could question the approval that was gotten to place a cache in an intersection, no?

There’s an older blog from November http://iowaadmin.blogspot.com/2008/11/roundabouts.html from IowaAdmin (known by another name on our forums) that states a slightly different reviewer opinion on this topic.

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Can I get one of our fine forum moderators to please update the subject of this thread to match the Poll question?

Thanks much!

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I think the poll is skewed because of confusion between the thread title and the poll question.

My apologies on that… wasn’t on purpose!

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safety is at the discretion of everyone caching.

Yes but are you referring to the safety of the cacher or the safety of the general public? 2 totally different things.

I can put a cache at the top of a tall tree and generally the only one that can get injured is the person stupid enough to climb that tall tree.

I can put a cache in the middle of a roundabout and anyone who comes along to hunt it could unintentionally cause an accident in the intersection.

There is a distinct difference.

I will comment more later. Carry on…

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Congrats on the new little one!! 😀

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To be fair to the owner of the new cache near the particular roundabout intersection referenced in my original post, their new cache is not inside of the intersection but is more of a roadside type cache near the roundabout.

However, it’s still a valid discussion and poll since there are a bunch that are indeed inside the “center circle”.

Thanks so far to those who have voted and responded. Keep em’ coming!

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I think mine is set at 450 feet. Seems to be a good distance if you are not in a very heavy cache “rich” area. However, when I was in West Bend for the cache bash, I turned off the tour guide altogether because there were so many caches less than 450 feet from the vehicle.

This one is a tough one to get right so it’s not too annoying. I do like the feature though.

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In case you’ve never had the joy of navigating a modern roundabout intersection, here is a link with a diagram of the 4 lane roundabout on College avenue in Appleton: http://www.appleton.org/departments/public/traffic/roundabouts/files/CJW%20Brochure.pdf

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Congrats!!!

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