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@Team Deejay wrote:
One thing to remember is that the official ruling from geocaching.com is:
If you sign the logbook, you can log the cache online.
Yes, this is The Letter of the Law.
However…is any behavior acceptable in order to claim the smilely? Or, are there accepted practices within the gaming community regarding logging online? I maintain there are indeed accepted practices.
For instance, there are no rules in geocaching.com against posting spoilers in the log. In fact, each cache page says before the logs–“Warning. Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links.” Yet this is frowned upon–in fact, I’d put money on a bet that the vast majority of active cache owners would delete a log that posted puzzle cache coordinates or gave away a tricky hide. How the heck is that any different than handing a sheet of solve coordinates to a busload of people other than a smaller audience?
In addition to The Letter of the Law regarding logging online, we have to look at The Spirit of the Law. Let’s start by looking again at some more of those rules, from the gc.com site:
Mystery or Puzzle Caches
The “catch-all” of cache types, this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates. The information needed to solve the puzzle must be available to the general caching community and the puzzle should be solvable from the information provided on the cache page.I challenge anyone to argue against the fact that the clearly-stated intent of the class of “Mystery or Puzzle” caches is to first solve the puzzle to obtain the coordinates, ‘cuz it says it right there.
As -cheeto- said earlier, some caches are different than traditional caches for a reason and he mentions EarthCaches as an example. I’d also add Challenge Caches to the list, which are actually part of the Puzzle class wording.
Therefore, puzzle caches, EarthCaches, Challenge Caches, are all “something different” caches that–according to the rules–do require more effort. They are designed to require more than just loading a PQ into your GPSr and heading into the field to look for the container.
However, with puzzle caches, owners obviously cannot enforce the requirement to complete the puzzle, as they can enforce the requirement to complete a challenge or EarthCache. And human nature being what it is, that is a loophole that will be exploited.
Yes, there are rules. But, as has been pointed out by others, there is also respect within the context of this game.
Now, the refrain I hear a lot is “play the game any way you want.” Well, the geocaching community does NOT condone playing the game any way you want. Specifically, the community frowns upon activities that diminish the quality or character of the cache for the next player–leaving caches in the open rather than rehiding them; mooching swag, etc. Do these things still happen? Yep. Are they poor caching etiquette? Yep.
Giving a bunch of people coordinates to a puzzle they never even bothered to look at before they get home to log it online diminishes the cache for both the owner who went through the trouble of working up the cache, and the others who have actually taken the time to solve the puzzle. It’s the same as if I’d walk 5 miles to get a T5 cache, then bring it back and dump it in the parking lot to make it easier for my “out caching with” buddies and future finders to find. (Ok, I know the rules prohibit moving a cache, it’s just an example.) It would no longer be T5 cache, just like a D5 puzzle whose coordinates end up on the public bulletin board or tour circuit is no longer a D5. It’s diminished.
Now, fortunately not every tour is simply a coordinate hand-out, but I know that some are. (More specifically, having never been on a tour, I am told that some are from those who were there.) And, as Johnny Cache most thoroughly points out, there are lots of grey areas. We cache as a family and the “gotta run” account gets the smilely no matter who finally made the solve breakthrough. Now, I do not let my daughter log these puzzles under her own account unless she helped solve it, but I’m probably in the minority there. Of course, the online record is not important to her and she has little interest in “clearing the map” of those pesky ?s, so she doesn’t care all that much.
Yes it’s a game.
Yes there are tons of scenarios that don’t fit the neat answer categories in this poll.
Yes there are more important things in life.
Yes I have better things to do than police our cache logs and so I don’t.
But if we all didn’t care about it we wouldn’t be here reading this or playing the game in the first place. I strongly, strongly believe some of the behavior I am seeing diminishes the game and, most distressingly, I also believe it is done with the intent of the virtual destruction of puzzles, either because those Cache Vandals are frustrated with not being able to solve a difficult puzzle, or because they’d rather see fewer (or no) puzzles being placed.
I hope I’m wrong.
On the Left Side of the Road...@CodeJunkie wrote:
@RSplash40 wrote:
Did the officer cut open the tongue?
Sounds like a great concept for an “Old Man” series cache. 😈 😈 😈
The Old Man | Gets All Grossed Out
On the Left Side of the Road...Well I was all ready to start a pet peeve here on “owners who can’t/don’t keep dogs in their yards” (because I blame the owner, not the dog). The scenario is, while out running I had a black lab come tearing toward me with the owner making a feeble attempt to call it back. Seeing that the dog had the tongue out and tail up, I decided he didn’t mean any harm (but I kept a finger on the pepper spray just in case). So, as the dog proceeded to run circles around me for about 100 feet of my run, the owner yells out, “Careful that he doesn’t trip you!”
😯
I’m ready to turn around and inquire not-so-politely about why it was MY problem to control HIS dog, when I thought to myself, “What would Sandlanders do?” (hereinafter known as, WWSD?)
So instead, I kept going, the dog turned back, and I enjoyed the other 94,940 feet of my run in the bright sunshine and 34 degrees. That makes the glass not just half full, but 99.9% full according to my calculations. 😀
On the Left Side of the Road...@Johnny Cache wrote:
Have some respect for the owners within reason and hopefully they’ll show you some respect in return.
I again agree wholeheartedly. Second time today.
On the Left Side of the Road...Thanks.
On the Left Side of the Road...@-cheeto- wrote:
I would also like to add (a slightly off-topic comment) that a puzzle tour bus of 10+ people is a disrespectful idea. It makes me want to disable all my puzzle caches and not allow logs. I would urge anyone who decides this is a good idea, to respect the owners and others who may have solved the puzzle. Pretty please.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I can only speculate about the motives behind this particularly-timed tour, without question it is giving the proverbial Middle Finger to cache owners in the Valley who the organizer knows are frustrated by this practice. This goes way beyond horse-trading and the occasional out-caching-with “found it” log. It’s also abundantly clear that nothing I or anyone else can say will cause the organizer or participants to see this point of view.
On the Left Side of the Road...Thanks to all who took the time to go through the candidate process; congratulations to the winners; and a special thanks in advance to the winners for the time you will spend in making geocaching better in WI along with the rest of the Board and the WGA during the coming year.
On the Left Side of the Road...@benny7210 wrote:
WOW– Road trip !!!! And it only 800 miles from home. Lets go and kick some A$$. LOL
Let’s see. Two EarthCaches in a park .1 miles from each other? That’s “overkill.”
A few hundred traditional caches .1 miles apart from each other? That’s just great!
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 🙄
On the Left Side of the Road...@Team Black-Cat wrote:
Caches placed by Day Of Week (All active caches)
Sun – 2536 (18.48%)
Mon – 1845 (13.44%)
Tue – 1769 (12.89%)
Wed – 1776 (12.94%)
Thu – 1623 (11.82%)
Fri – 1709 (12.45%)
Sat – 2468 (17.98%)No surprises there….
Over 63 percent of caches placed during the week? Don’t you people have jobs? 😈
On the Left Side of the Road...@TyeDyeSkyGuy wrote:
So, using his method, global temps rose 1.2° since 1903 Half of that rise came in the past 30 years alone. Now the question is, what can we contribute it too? Is it pollution, or is it caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic of the earth itself? My guess is it’s a combo of both.
Dunno…to what can we attribute the global warming during the “Medievial Warm Period?” Sure can’t be urbanization. Maybe cow flatulence.
Do humans have an IMPACT on the environment? Unquestionably. Should we make costly and revolutionary geopolitical changes based on “science” that is not only far from settled, but unravelling day by day?
No.
Science is never “settled.” Question assumptions and conclusions. Most important, question motives.
On the Left Side of the Road...@marc_54140 wrote:
Where: Shawano area – ‘walking on frozen water’ caches
Three main caches – Shawano, Bonduel and Hortonville. All island caches.
When: Wednesday, February 17th.
Approximately 8 AM to 3 PM
Reposting this one, since the snow storm interfered last time.
A favor to ask on this one…
These caches were hidden to be easy to find but hard to get to so they aren’t hidden very well by design. Well, actually they aren’t “hidden” at all. And the # of visitors this winter has far exceeded our expectations.
So, particularly if the group is large, extra discretion would be appreciated to protect the hides.
Also…don’t drive on White Lake for GC1W0TG!
On the Left Side of the Road...I knew we shouldn’t have bought those Diebold voting machines…
On the Left Side of the Road...On the Left Side of the Road...How about some logging statistics? Most found…least found (which I assume will be a tie)…least/most found over days in place…
Edit: Now that I think about it, not sure if those stats come thru on the PQ
On the Left Side of the Road...Even more good stuff in my inbox…Bartrod, this is 8). You picked a great day to visit the islands!
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=1a5e3f15-e4d4-476e-8ad3-f2b5fef4ae92
and a literally well-written (in the snow) log…
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=ca247305-d3f4-43d0-9092-1a939e98d999
On the Left Side of the Road... -
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