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My thoughts.
Travel bug points: Good
FTF: Mostly good (do we want to increase since it is a rarity?)
Cache Rescue: Good
Found it: Good
DNF: Maybe, what about those difficult puzzles or very hard find since Difficulty isn’t factored in. Maybe just (D+T)? Also mabye add in (+1 for multi)? Or leave it
Revisit: Maybe, not much reward for already doing work previously, add more incentive to verify. (D+T+2+(1 if multi) or maybe (T+5+(+1 if multi)). Feel needs to be addressed as a cache rescue to verify a container is gone is worth more than a revisit, maybe?
Year bonuses: If we are defining Lonely as 18mo and older all caches would be x2. My thoughts based on our current direction for list since date can include 18mo-8+ years (all percentages below are based off of current cache counts total 3526 over 18mo)
- 0-2 years unfound: x1 (gives 18-24months low skin, and currently 18-24mo includes 1288 caches) 36.5%
- 2-4 years unfound: x2 (larger grouping currently then 18-24 but are lonely enough to earn extra reward, 2-4yrs includes 1735 caches) 49.2%
- 4-6 years unfound: x3 (4-6yrs includes 457 caches) 12.9%
- 6+ years unfound: x4 (6+yrs includes 48 caches, this could and hopefully would be a rarity, likely specialized caches ie scuba or difficult puzzle) 1.4%
Feels similar to current but adjusted and adding more levels, with having a date range of caches again can make bonus points a factor again as well as giving a greater incentive to some of those really remote, difficult, special, caches that some may not desire going after. I also factored in the 0-2 year if we ever end up getting to a point were we have less than 1000 caches that are older than 18mo.
Proposal for new: Incentive for a CO, granted most are likely inactive and wouldn’t be playing. But (T+1+(1 if multi)) for verifying cache(and all stages) are still in place if 3 most recent logs are DNFs. Or same score, for verifying cache if not found/verified within past 2 years.
Not sure if needed or worth adding as likely most CO’s playing the game would have probably already addressed. Or at least with the second thought can give others confirmed confidence a cache is in play instead of both the CO and cachers assume either it is missing or still there?
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Current Rules/Points
- Found It: (D + T + 5)
- DNF: (T + 1)
- Revisit: (T + 2 + (1 if multi))
- Cache Rescue: (10)
Bonus Points
- Travel Bugs
- Found & Moved: +2 each
- Reported Missing: +1 each
- FTF: 10
- 1+ years unfound: x2
- 2+ years unfound: x3
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Also looking back in some old forums with membership discussions (some of you included) these where some thoughts
https://wi-geocaching.com/forums/topic/increase-number-in-lcg-to-1000/
https://wi-geocaching.com/forums/topic/keeping-the-lcg-fresh/Seemed general census was support for more caches (granted concerns raised that it wouldn’t help the spread)
Concerns about having the LCG freshened up, ie term period of caches, on list for 6mo, then off for 2mo, back on for 6mo, etc. To help refresh and get a rotation of caches on the list, rotate out the difficult ones, get others added.
Concerns raised doing so just like I said in the last post about having a cache that was on the list but then disappears the next even though it still qualifies.
Couple ideas mentioned about splitting up into regions to create list, either N/S, quadrants, etc.
Just wanting to make sure that members opinions and voices are known/considered as the purpose is with any committee and not just our thoughts/wants(not saying we haven’t cause I think we have, just wanted to share past discussions). And I think the solution we are leaning toward seems to address most. List with caches spread across the state for all to have a chance to play, see an increase in the list size. There will still be some nay sayers, but geocaching has changed since LCG first started and it hasn’t changed at all.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Interesting concept. I’m just thinking of the lonely series or the county forest that nobody has cached in for 4 years. You might have 6 lonely caches in the area, but only one on the list. I know for me, I would not drive a long distance for one lonely (unless it’s something epic) and I wouldn’t just find the one, I’d find all of them, but some might resent that they don’t get points for the 4-year lonely caches that aren’t on the list.
I think this can come into play of what is the definition and reasoning for the game. Can’t say if there is an official reason when the game was first created outside of peoples opinions. (“Keeping the game fresh”, “Giving all caches equal love of finds”, etc). So my question in black and white. Is the LCG goal to help “freshen the map/give attention to unfound caches/etc” or is it for the points. Players may want to play for points and best way to do that is to hit the groupings, or target high bonus caches, but should points define the game? My opinion is the goal is about the caches not the points, those are a benifit (the above is just my opinion, I know I have played/targeted for points as have others in the past, especially since prizes and bragging rights are involved). Maybe its adding in other rewards (Next year we do plan to do took rookie award. Maybe have one be most reports, granted 1st would get that except for 2016 & 2015 2nd place had more reports for the past 5 years)
That said your concern is one I’ve had as well. But at the same time when I have done my “Lonely trips” I will find other caches along the way including ones that might show up on the list the next month. If you don’t want to find the others, thats fine they might show up the next list and can go again, at the same time if other caches are found while on the same trip, players may not get points but then does it still accomplish the goal of the LCG?
More of my main concern is along that line but more so, “the cache was on the list last month, but not on this month and wasn’t found”. Weather/season may not help in targeting some caches(ie the scuba ones in winter), or a puzzle that took me the two months to solve but wasn’t able to find yet. Again I think like Russ said it would just have to be made clear the time periods this cache is available and it may or may not be on the next round so plan accordingly.
Or along those line, those tough/difficult/involved ones may get lost while everyone goes for the easy ones. Granted this already kinda happens and reason we see some of those caches are 5+ years lonely and the list has gotten a little stale, but if they only pop on the list 3 out of 6 times a year will they ever be targeted?
I would like to think more people will be excited to play having the list get variety and have more spread, would like to hope that once people start finding ones near home they might start to venture further to get more points since they now have points on the board and have skin in the game.
That all said: I think some of the potential negatives out way the positives and that the positives solve more of the concerns raised by WGA members. “No LCG near me, doesn’t excite me to play; Its the same hard difficult caches that I am unable to find; etc”. If we increase the count, the chance of lonely caches near each other being on the list would be greater and could still be an incentive(especially having a range of dates again and bonus points being factors again might create greater incentives to get even if not all nearby lonelies aren’t on the list, and thus maybe get other non-list lonelies cleaned up in the process.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
I took it to the shop anyway.
Probably a smart choice 😉
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Got the mower out on Monday. It’s making a grinding sound and doesn’t move in reverse. Going to take it in to the shop today. The grass should be about 2 feet tall by the time I get the mower back.
Buy some ear plugs, grinding problem solved. Take only right hand turns, works for UPS, should work for the mower. Saved you a trip to the shop 😉 I’ll send the invoice
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Welcome back to the game! The community is still alive and strong!
That is one thing I like about geocaching is just the variety of whats out there can appeal to many interests. Some like the long hikes and large caches in the woods. Some like the tough small clever hidden micro in the city or maybe work on a puzzle. Others like getting numbers and seeing how many they can find and more. If there is a type you don’t like, you don’t have to look for it.
Personally I like all the above, sometimes time doesn’t always allow for a good hike but looking for an excuse to get out of the house and sometimes a micro is what does that. I enjoy a good puzzle on a rainy day. I enjoy having the variety of whats out there.
Sadly yes most of my precious Geocoins and TBs stay at home with my in my collection, usually just generic TBs I send out now so my feelings aren’t hurt if it gets lost. But at the same time, trackables still move and have a few that are still getting some good travels in.
Once again welcome and hopefully can meet in person eventually.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Lists generated below using the same list of 5000 caches mentioned above
- 750
- 1000
Personally notice when compared to the 500, seeing increase in density in the more cache populated areas, not saying its bad just an observation(ie Fox Valley, Milwaukee, TNW caches). But still see the spread across the state.
Now using my list ran today 4/30/2020 and I believe just enabled caches (no disabled) These are the counts for how long they have been lonely.
- 8yrs+ – 2
- 7-8yrs – 15
- 6-7yrs – 31
- 5-6yrs – 99
- 4-5yrs – 358
- 3-4yrs – 656
- 2-3yrs – 1079
- 18mo-2yrs – 1288
- 12mo-18mo – 1009
So 18mo-8+yrs = 3,526 if you go 1 year or older total = 4,535
I guess I would be open to setting the cutoff at 18mo. And if we go the random route follow this formula.
- If more than 500(or x) caches of 18mo or longer unfound, apply random selection
- If 500(or x) or less caches of 18mo or longer unfound, collect the 500(or x) longest unfound caches
I would be curious if we decide to propose this route is to stay at 500, it seems to provide good spread and a decent handful of caches, would get new variety every other month, and personal observation increasing the count noticibly increases more in clustered areas. Would this route gain enough interest alone that it gets people active and searching while clearing the board that an increased limit is needed?
I think the main arguments of increasing the limit in the past was hoping it would add caches spread across the state, which we realize it doesn’t. If we get caches spread across the state, does the list truly need to be increased?
Not opposed to increasing but thinking as to why increase then, or is the reason to add more options now. Do we start out trying random with 500 caches, see how 6 months go and decide if an increase is needed or not?
I guess personally if we were to increase I would probably lean in the 750 direction vs 1000 based on LCG historically being 500 caches, and when looking at 1000, feel that then the clustering issue could be argued again(sure there is spread but arguments could come in saying that in my area there is only 5 in close range while you have over 50 *storms off* 🙂 )
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
So personally kinda liking the Random route. I grabbed the 5000 longest unfound caches in the state, latest cache found is end of May 2019. So at current date about 4250 caches >365 days unfound. In the future I’d say we pick what is lonely, ie >365 and that is the selection to pick from, but was just trying this to test.
I took the 5000 longest unfound and just collected 500 random caches (just did 500 based on current list size). And did that 5 times. Visually it looks like a decent spread across the state, there are some weaker spots but those spots include counties in the state that are in the bottom 10 of total caches in county so makes sense. Can view the 5 lists below (attached images, but limited to 4 attachements)
- https://coord.info/BM7W2A3
- https://coord.info/BM7W2A4
- https://coord.info/BM7W2A5
- https://coord.info/BM7W2A8
- https://coord.info/BM7W2A9
Reasons why I like this
- Truly freshens the list up every two months, can create anticipation for what might be on. Doesn’t stay stale (ie the couple scuba caches, but they will show up on and off depending on random selection)
- Still includes “lonely” caches and gives all of them a fair shot, all lonelies are created equal 🙂
- Has spread of caches across the state
- Gives date ranges on last found dates, brings bonus points back into play again. (IE first list 8-2018 to 5-2019)
- Mix of including all caches older then x but still has a defined list to use to post on website, have List available, make PQ, etc.
- The potential of leaving at 500 caches still makes game playable but still includes a challenge and “game” aspect
Reason I don’t like
- Not targeting purely the longest unfound caches out there (granted as list stands, doesn’t get cleaned up that fast anyways)
- Still see some clustering but that is just due to the higher numbers in those areas so probability of more caches selected randomly would be higher there. Better then current.
- Difficult caches could become on the wayside, IE a tough puzzle that took me 1-2 mo to solve is now of the list this next periods. But if it continues unfound it would show up again eventually and could then find.
Feel free to add bullet points and opinions
Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
04/29/2020 at 11:33 am in reply to: Immediate: List Only Active Caches (not include disabled) #2066429I’ve been able to re-enable my disabled caches with no problem. Reviewers have only stopped publishing brand new caches. It’s also not their job to re-enable caches even if they see a note that CO has completed maintenance. They might wait an additional time period before archive but they won’t enable(at least my experience and understanding).
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Why not a 1000 on the list? Why not have an algorithm that includes every cache more than 36 months old? z
Why not 1000, i’m not opposed, thats why I said “or x”. In terms of going above 1000 caches though, run into limits of PQ GC.com lists. So yes we could run and gather a list of all caches that is 36mo or 12mo to include on our website so we have a defined list for players, that is an easy solution to do for caches longer then “x” and include that as our list if we want to move that direction. Just currently would run into the limits of PQ and GC.com lists as both have limits of 1000.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
That could work, just I feel still to many moving pieces on the player side and then always making it clear that there is more then the list, but could work. I see the desire in having a lot of caches available which then means more are in south/southeast areas. But also think there should be a quantity limit.
Thought I just had and hopefully can follow my thought process. Define our lonely time frame limit ie >365 days. Gather that selection, then with a random smart algorithm grab 500(or x) caches from the list factoring in as best of even spread across the state(or just stick with random). Every two months it gives a completely new flavor as it would be random again next period with spread awareness.
I know it’s different then current but, It would truly freshen the list of available caches, gives all lonelies “equal” opportunities for a chance on the list. Never know what will be on the next list so would create anticipation every two months vs staying stale like it has and will continue if only 30 or less are found each period (a cache could show up 2-3 periods in a row or might see it every couple rounds you never know). Hopefully better then current with spreading caches around the state. Could see a spread of bonus point levels again. Better then limiting by counties as caches less than a year would currently show up and not really lonely. With over 5000 caches currently it could make for fun lists for a while.
(I know it would require effort on the “admin” side but as we get a new site together my plan has been to have a “one click” list refresh for admins. So this could be done with using the GC api. So if you have other crazy ideas like this, put them out there, I’d rather put the effort/leg lifting on the backside for an easier play for users)
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
I shall be this next month 😉 when I ran the query it didn’t factor in unfound caches since they didn’t have a last found date so it ignored them.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Just in time, was just reading through this thread and find out that evers is ordering to re-open 34 of the parks. https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/WIGOV/bulletins/288b97a TAKE NOTE: that also starting May 1st, admission fees will be required.
As with others I am/was mixed too with the closures. As important as it is to be outdoors and to use and recreate, its the equal purpose of the DNR to protect and preserve those lands as well. If both physical property abuse and trash and vandalism took place that hurts just one of the DNR’s general purpose. Then you add on top of how busy those parks were and just the physical capability to not even try to practice social distancing went against the current orders. So I can understand why some were selected. (when you looked at a map it was all the southern half parks aka the ones near population).
What I would of been curious is if both park fees weren’t waived, and did have such nice amazing weather right away on how that would of looked. If it was some of the cold and rainy days we got later, would there been as many out to of caused the “issues”.
I was surprised just watching the number of logs coming in on some of the WGA SPS caches. In some of the smaller parks the number of cachers that were finding the cache made me only imaging how many were there just hiking, which then thinking that there is no way social distancing was able to be practiced. (ie when I saw the number of logs for natural bridge)
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
Great idea.
I am MTCLMBR (Chris Stolte) and currently live in Mazomanie (near Madison). I previously lived in Fond Du Lac were many of my previous hides are.
My first year playing LCG was in 2015, really played hard in 2016 during which time I met a girl and my LCG playing has then slowed down due to life involving someone else 🙂 (I mean that in a good way, but less full free weekends by myself that I used in the past to travel to many LCG caches). Haven’t gotten a LCG in a while due to many moves and life and lack of ones closeby that I’m able to easily get after.
Kinda interesting and fun even starting to see caches I previously got for the LCG showing up again even though they are mainly from 2016. Will say that if you want to play for points that at least due to my past and current location (more so current) it does require travel due to nearby caches include difficult puzzles, or ones the gut says are missing, which currently makes it hard to play even not wanting to go for points.
Climbing To New Adventures
**The views expressed here are that of myself only and do not necessarily represent that of the WGA board.**
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