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@-cheeto- wrote:
Ask -cheeto-‘s kid what his top 5 favorite caches are and I GUARANTEE none of them are ammo boxes.
If you’ve done any or all of these caches you will get the idea that what makes a “kid friendly” cache, at least for a 10 yr old boy is not at all what I expected. He never gave “finding lot’s of cool stuff” or “the cache had lot’s of travel bugs” as a reason for his favorite choices.
-cheeto-
Now, that’s a thread starter or a poll question… (thanks, -cheeto-, for backing me up. I could tell from logs that a couple of mine were in his top 5, and I had an inkling about the rest.)
Thank you Team Deejay for a very insightful and thought-out response. It really is up to the cache owner to watch the logs and address anything that they consider an issue when witnessed in a public domain.
I too can tell that the exchange escalated and moved from a non-offensive public log to something more personal attack at which point is should have been kept private and not posted or laid out in sequence in this thread.
I have read many posts in my Flags of Our Fathers series that end in similar sentiments about God and Country, and while I have many things to say about America and it’s current administration (little of it positive) nor do I have much to say about organized religion, under any guise, I do not make an issue of these logs nor delete them or request to have them removed. I don’t care to. If a cacher has the desire to publicly express their feelings and faiths, then they live with the judgment of the public who reads it and makes assumptions about who they are. I would, however, remove a log if it contained any direct personal character attacks.
So, if I said facisiously, God Bless the KKK and Down with Women’s Sufferage, that’s my prerogative and I have to live with the same character judgments or suffer to explain when my words are taken out of context… Bueller?
@Team Deejay wrote:
That way, any cache you have on the machine will at least have some swag for the kid to find.
It’s not always about swag for kids! I’d rather take my kind to the top of Lookout Above I|Remnants, a 3.5 Terrain then take them to 5 ammo boxes with McD junk with a terrain of 1. They will REMEMBER the view from the lookout tower and will not remember the other ammo boxes in the area even though they might find something of interest in there, that will be forgotten, broken or thrown away in a month (there are some exceptions to this general comment about swag).
I wish everyone would stop associating “kid-friendly” with SWAG! It dries me nuts. Any child who is along to find the final for PUC | Hooray for Diffendoffer Day, will not forget that micro final. Just because it is a micro does not mean that it can’t be creative, or memorable, or challenging. Any kid who climbs to get PUC|Stop Your Pining will remember that one as well, or Camelback Cinema | Passings of Mr. Pink. Ask -cheeto-‘s kid what his top 5 favorite caches are and I GUARANTEE none of them are ammo boxes.
It’s about the journey not about the junk that you find when you get there.
I didn’t vote for mine either in the first go around, though I was surprised to not see it make the first cut.
The similarity between the gospel “g” and the stylized “g” is only based on the shape. The similarities between the Washington logo and cheesehead dave’s are far more similar and “look” intentional, although I believe they are merely coincidental.
The stylized “g” has a huge amount of potential and certainly would not have to look as close to a “g” as it does presently, a little separation of the descender and the beam would help. The mind is pretty quick to make the connection, even if it isn’t physically there.
Of course it is up to the board to decide in the end. Just know that I am offering “professional” design services to get the “g” option to a final polished logo if it is chosen. I don’t think dave’s option needs any more work and could stand as it is.
@zuma wrote:
I guess Sagasu cant win every month, now can he?
zuma
Valley cachers who’ve done a number of s|s caches know one thing, they know that they never know what to expect at the end, i.e, Passings of Mr. Pink.
I place all sizes and sometimes an ammo can is sitting in a place where you wouldn’t expect it, Sins of My Father, while a micro is placed at the end of a difficult puzzle or journey, Grab my Stick. Of late, I’d echo gotta-runs comments about micros not disappearing as frequently and I have been defaulting heavily to those for urban puzzle finals.
To me it comes down to an absolute, what is the point of a cache I place? Very rarely do I look at a spot and say, “hmm… there should be a cache there”, and then quickly run home and put a 35mm canister together.
In fact, most of my caches take an amazingly long time to finally make it into the field. I have custom final caches still sitting on my bench that were ready to go out a year ago, but I’ve either not found the time, gotten the permission, or had quite the right set-up to make it happen. I have partially published listings waiting for finals to go out. Ferber on Film has been written up and has been sitting in my to-finish queue since Jan of 07 and it has an AWESOME and completely memorable final.
I wish people who put out simple “there’s a spot for one” caches would take just a little more time to create a memorable cache. Not to say there there aren’t really cool and interesting places to bring people with a simple tree hanger, but even those can benefit from a unique final container or puzzle set-up to get you there.
If it wasn’t for the challenge of the lonely cache game, I think I would have lost all interest in going out caching, but maybe I have higher expectations than most. About the only thing that makes it worthwhile anymore is the rare opportunity to go caching with a friend which is certainly the appeal of caching tours and one of the more rewarding aspects of the sport.
That, and the chance that someone might have placed a cool new cache and I have yet to discover it.
A strong logo needs to stand on it’s own and not look significantly similar to an existing logo, particularly one that represents a like company or group of individuals, which it certainly does here.
Not to throw a wet blanket on the fire here, but let us also keep in mind what the logo winner himself had to say about his submission.
The WGA board would be wise to keep this in mind when coming to thier final decision.
@Cheesehead Dave wrote:
About my submitted logo:
I got a PM regarding this, and although I have already mentioned this in a different thread, I’ll mention it again here:
When I was reading a web page on logo design, one of the styles was the “knockout” lettering like what I did with mine. After I put it together, I realized that it looked a lot like this existing logo:
Mine for reference:
I won’t be offended if people want to shy away from mine if they think it looks too similar.
I also fully support the idea of using the 99designs site for a logo.
A little too late, but considering the current status and top pick I can’t help but think we went about this the wrong way. This is what the WGA would have gotten had they decided to go another route and source logos from a professional firm. This sample is a single round of concepts for initail presentation that we did for an commercial real estate group.
ROUND ONE: http://seldom-seen.andysnet.net/pepper_round1.pdf
We’re into round 4 and 5 now…
@zuma wrote:
I guess one of the advantages of an ammo can in a hollow tree is that loss to natural forces will be less, but I guess that would not be as special.
zuma
You’re speaking volumes there. Probably THE most rewarding aspect of GOING caching, as opposed to sitting here and thinking them up, is the occasional find of a truly creative cache, like a Metamorphosis or a Hog Heaven. I really don’t get much out of finding ammo cans or keyholders unless their hides are unique or creative, or there was a creative puzzle involved which I had to solve first.
When I began creative caching, I spent a ton of time on unique final containers and was constantly challenging myself to come up with the next cool hide. As the most creative containers began disappearing with regularity while the non-creative ones didn’t, I soon realized that I faced a loosing battle and gradually shifted my focus from creative containers (which I do still get out there from time to time) to creative puzzles that have simple keyholder or pill bottle finals.
This has helped temper my frustration with lost caches and also makes it easier to maintain the growing number of caches I have out there.
I am in one of those slumps right now actually, where about a half dozen of mine need attention and that certainly pulls me away from other aspects of the game. I’m not even on the LCG board for July yet…
So, here are a few words of advice from a cacher that knows a thing or two about putting them out:
1. Keep making your special ones, but try not to invest TOO much time into making them “perfect”. Inevitably your coolest ones will disappear while your keyholders will stick around forever. BUT, without the cool final containers, the sport looses some of it’s luster and appeal (for me at least).
2. Make sure you are creating a cache that even a novice cacher will be able to replace as you intended. I can’t tell you how many times I go to check on mine after “seasoned” cachers, much less newbies, have visited and my first reaction is “c’mon, guys, you know better!” when I see it out in the open or a half-arsed attempt at putting it back (no finger pointing, just an observation). Even the simplest of hides can get replaced poorly.
3. Find the cheapest sources for your supplies and ALWAYS BUY 2, of everything you need to create the container! Whenever I create a new custom container, I create 2 of them at the same time. I have a whole box of “spares” on my cache bench on hand for the next time one goes missing. If, after the 2nd one goes MIA, and I am certain the location is compromised, I will consider changing up the hide or archiving the cache.
4. Attach the cache to it’s hide spot with some type of lanyard, fishline, cable, etc. This doesn’t stop all the critters from walking off with your cache (the squirrels that took WP1 from Treasured Memories chewed through cable to get the container free!), but it will prevent some from doing so and may be enough of a deterrent to prevent a curious muggle or frustrated cacher from removing it as well.
I live with my caches and try to get to the replacements when I can, but can’t always do so in a timely fashion which leads me to my last one;
5. Enlist the assistance of a “trailboss” or co-author for cachers that are outside of your immediate home area and supply them with a replacement in the event your cache goes missing. I have many helpers in the field (AND I AM SO GREATFUL TO ALL OF YOU!), but oftentimes find that I cannot ask them to replace a missing cache since the container is custom-built and I didn’t give them a back-up. I’m working on this one myself.
Keep up the good work all you creative cachers. And remember, I’d rather know that a cache of mine was in trouble because you accidentally broke it, then find out months later that it is broken and damaged beyond repair because it sat too long in disrepair.
[/u]
Still venting? Well I can certainly add to this thread…
PUC | Grapes of Wrath : Chewed by animals
The Old Man | Takes Shelter : Washed away by rainstorm
Scout’s Honor | Modern Merits: disappeared
Big Sty Country: muggled
Across the River Styx: WP1 missing (hour into creation)
Duplicate Bridge Tournament: WP1 muggled or washed away.The Old Man | Lost His Sinkers: muggled
B.I.N.G.O.: eaten
The Old Man | Returns: Taken 3 times by mother nature
I Have Another Idea: broken by cacher (half hour)
Under Lock’n’Key | Treasured Memories: WP1 taken by squirrels twice (3-4 hours into those)
Laughing Waters | A Time It Was: Muggled
Pickin’ Through the Past | Slim Pickin’s: removed during construction
Boxed in a Corner: Final (cast iron rabbit) muggled
Real Gone | Shake It: muggled
Easy Peezy: Lost to carelessness
Lutz Got Some Ice Off That: Final muggled
Laughing Waters | Bridgemasters’ Quarters: muggled
Laughing Waters | Mr. Fitz Goes Sailing: muggled
Book of Armaments II: 9-21: mistaken as trash and removed
Real Gone | Green Grass: muggled
Hyde’s Web: unsure about initial container demise
Postmarked | DC: Fell in water – retrieved and replaced with smaller final
Urban Myth | Brothers in FFarms: broken by cacher (frozen in)
PUC | Good Grief Mr. Peabody: muggled
Under Lock’n’Key | Whistle Blower: muggled
Real Gone | Make It Rain: lost to nature
Artisans of Appleton | For the Brunn of It: cacher dropped container
Nifty Fifty: lost to nature
Real Gone | Clang Boom Steam: a WP removed by city work crew
For Immediate Release… : taken by nature
Real Gone | Hoist That Rag: parts lost due to nature
Pickin’ Through the Past | On a Mission: hidey spot removed by new owner
Duck, Duck… Goose: muggledAnybody else wanna B&M about there list?
Then caches removed by forces of nature like rain or hungry critters, you just have to accept. The ones that get muggled for no other reason then that they were not re-hidden well.. those are hard pill to swallow. Especially when you’ve invested hours into custom containers… beleive me, I know!
This is the reason I try to be so vocal about replacing caches how they were intended to be hidden by the owner. You cache long enough, you recognize the hiders intent, and sometimes it’s not enough to “hide them like you find them” as they are already more exposed than they were intended to be.
My rule is this, if I can see the cache from 6 feet away, it isn’t hidden like it was supposed to be (pretending that I am a muggle and don’t recognize an urban cache for what it is mind you). I will always leave something a little better concealed then I find it, even if that means that it is hidden harder that the owner intended. Better a lasting cache and a FEW DNF’s than a cache with lots of finds that goes MIA
@marc_54140 wrote:
Try ‘Niffty Fifty” GC1187E. Apparently you can free dive to it, but …..
@pharmteamK wrote:
The one in the Oconomowoc area is The Broken Dam GCW9KE. One we won’t be getting either.
Now, if you were into the Lonely Cache Game AND into diving, this would be the month to get both of these as they are both on the lonely list… Can’t imagine why.
@Team Deejay wrote:
1 Marsh to the Philippine Islands GCGNRY N44° 38.307 W89° 34.253
2 Carpe’ Cache’ GC1F93 N43° 04.750 W88° 47.940
3 Lost Boy Scout GCMTEJ N44° 42.783 W89° 40.517
4 Long Tail Point Lighthouse 1899 GCXHNH N44° 35.136 W87° 58.909
5 The Broken Dam GCW9KE N43° 06.727 W88° 26.965Got my eyes on number 1 and possibly number 2. number 3 I just logged on the 30th, so you can pull that one off the list. number 4 is the closest but given the past DNFs…not so sure and number 5, well there’s a long story behind that one but boy would I love to get that sucker chalked up!
@Team Deejay wrote:
- Appleton (Doesn’t anyone ever actually FIND the caches up there?)
No, but we sure know how to B&M about them! Sheesh, look at all the lonely caches in the new list that are MINE! My puzzles cannot be as hard as Marc’s yet he only has a couple loneliess this round and I have a ton.
What gives, people, aren’t you reading my Milestone Clues?
I stand corrected. The description sounded very much like a LCG situation and without knowing which cache was being referenced, it jumped to a conclusion.
Yes, it is up to the owner to take care of their caches or make sure there is someone in the area that can. However, sometimes it’s difficult to get to a cache in a timely fashion, even though they are not that far away.
If I only put out caches that I could respond immediately too when they are in trouble, I would have 1/10th the number of caches placed. Maybe Valley cachers would prefer that? Or, I would just place magnetic keyholders and make it easy on myself.
I do allow myself a little latitude when placing caches that are further then a half mile from my house for this reason. Big Sty Country is a great example. I LOVE that cache because it is in such HIGH muggle territory and because of the name, but it was down for maintenance for a month and I couldn’t make the time I needed to get there and take care of it quickly. (you would have to understand my relationship with the other half to fully appriciate what that means). But eventually I got there and did take care of it. I did ask an area cacher to try their best at a replacement and they failed, so there are times when your back-up plan or trailboss can’t make it happen either.
We have to keep ourselves in check and make sure that there is good coverage when caches fall outside of the easy to maintain range. That is why you will see trailbosses on many of my distant caches, all of which I would miss and so would others if they were archived because I couldn’t get to them within a couple days of an issue arising.
I have a distinct feeling that the replacement was in part due to that cache being listed in the Lonely Cache Game.
I have replaced MIA caches, but only after confirming with the owners that the cache was actually gone first and only after getting permission to do so and a description of what the suspect cache was.
Lots of MIA caches have been replaced and put back into action this way over the last 6 months of the game. Ask Marc how many of his MIA caches have been replaced since January and then ask him if he thinks it a good idea. I know what his answer will be.
Sagasu and I have been playing the game hard and over the course of a half year have brought dozens of caches back from the dead, many of which have been logged MIA for months with no owner action. This is the TRUE intent of the game. To either get owners to archive missing caches or get them replaced and to that ends it has been quite successful.
That is not to say that an occasion does not arise when we make a mistake. I replaced an Ecorangers cache because I was dead certain it wasn’t there only to find out that Sagasu had replaced it the day before, right under my eyes.
For my part I always attempt to contact the owner of a suspect or troubled cache and get permission to fix it. 9 times out of ten the cache owner is VERY happy that I am taking the time out of my day to fix their cache.
So, if the intent of the “crazy antic” was to replace a suspected MIA cache and one of the LCG players did so without contacting you first, then they’ve learned their lesson, but their intent was not crazy. If it was just to get a smiley (which I very seriously doubt) then shame on them.
I will continue to play the Lonely Cache Game and seek permission to replace caches if indeed I can dialouge with the owners at GZ and confirm that a cache is gone.
But I treat my lab rats so well! Seriously though, a huge thanks and note of understanding for all of you who have been the lab animals for my experiments. You know who you are. I put a lot into my puzzles and they get tweaked considerably from the time they are first conceived and there are times, too many times, that a clue is wrong or has a multiple answer or any other number of minor adjustments that I miss before publishing.
I truly value the cachers who go after my FTF opportunities knowing full well what they may be in for. On the other had I have always been agreeable to a phone call when something doesn’t work right. Even if it’s a cacher who’s gone 55 hours with 5 hours of sleep and is no longer able to do simple math… 😉
Thanks guys for putting up with me and my hair-brained ideas.
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