[seldom|seen]

Certainly should have seen all of this coming…

First; @-cheeto- wrote:

I believe that is what s|s is referring to. A single color variant (well single color printed, 2nd color being the shirt color) was produced for the back of the t-shirts that were for sale at the cache ba$h and at the picnic. The background is a full color variant that (to my knowledge) had not been published publicly before.

Thank you for the clarification from the WGA standpoint. I didn’t follow the coin and t-shirt developments but now understand how these variants were framed in context to events and coinage.

Second; @-cheeto- wrote:

Google presents a special edition Google logo on their main page for special events. We presented a Geocoin themed logo on our 2010 t-shirt back. (typically we don’t print a front and back) Yes, folks who are wearing those t-shirts are “representing” the WGA but there are also WGA shirts out there with all sorts of other things like “proposed logo designs that never won the vote”, design contest winners for events, etc.

Comparing the Google variants to the WGA is suggesting that the WGA is avaunt guard, trend-setting and breaking with status quo? Really? To my knowledge, no other fortune 500 company is in the habit of creating “special” logos for special events or days. Times change and with Google breaking down the conventions of keeping “sacred” logo space intact, rules are melting, but I find it an odd comparison since we are just a small non-profit with no issues representing ourselves with multiple logos.

Third; @zuma wrote:

If you want to change the logo, you will need to ask that question of those candidates up for election in January, and vote just for people who wish to change the logo.

Agreed. This is a Poll to get a sense of the WGA body’s feelings on the chosen and approved logo. I was looking for numbers of those satisfied and those not. The WGA is elected by the body, just as our politicians are, expected to represent us and majority opinion. Just as you shouldn’t vote to extend Bush tax cuts for the top 2% when 70+ percent of the populous is against it, perhaps we should consider a logo change if 70% of the WGA body is all for it?

Lastly; @gotta run wrote:

We’re a small, nonprofit association and it doesn’t make a difference how our logo looks because we’re not going to attract one person to our association based on it. People come here because they first know about geocaching, then decide to associate with a bunch of people who feel similarly.

So, my vote is to do whatever looks cool and fits best with a particular point-in-time usage. Not only do I see little risk of any brand confusion, but even if people are completely confused about our brand, what possible difference does it make to our membership, existence, and purpose?

Here’s my primary question as a list of questions. Why did we chose a state coin with a special revised design over the approved logo? Why did we all choose a cool looking T-shirt design (not the same as the coin, BTW) to go with the coin sale? Why are changes being made to the website? If we are just a small non-profit then why put any effort into any of this?

The answer is simple. We want OUR site and OUR merchandise to look the best, not because we are, as a whole, concerned with attracting new members with a cool logo, but because it is OUR site and OUR merchandise and we simply want it to look as good as we can make it (and we can make it look better) with the talent we have at our disposal (and we have talent). [/b]

[seldom|seen]

@RSplash40 wrote:

ya know, and I’m sure GR will back me up on this, in the scouts when someone keeps ramping up good idea’s like this we hand them a sign up form and a unit patch…

So, whatdya say alex?

Sure, I’d be willing to help out.

[seldom|seen]

@Team Deejay wrote:

All I am saying is that if you do care about what happens to your listing, please select your adopters carefully.

That’s the challenge. You may think you’ve selected the right person(s) for the job given their initial enthusiasm and it isn’t until you notice one get archived for lack of communication that you realize you’ve made a mistake.

I am in the process of pulling back a number of mine previously adopted, many in the capable hands of cachers I trust, just for a little piece of mind.

Yes, no cache needs to be permanent, and yes, turnover is good and inevitable. I cannot disagree with that. I do have a bias towards keeping mine alive, if only because of the investments made to get them published. That and the knowledge, or maybe belief, that they do a decent job of highlighting historical or cultural moments and monuments that a replacement cache might not highlight as well and two, would bring you back to revisit the same spot to look at the same stuff to log another find, which doesn’t seem very rewarding to me.

[seldom|seen]

@-cheeto- wrote:

Interesting poll though and I am sure there are a few people interested in the results of the vote. (maybe not so much the results of re-opening a can of worms…)

PLEASE understand that I DO NOT want to open that can again 🙄 I simply see some disparity between variants of the same design, or more specifically an enhanced version of the design and one we have had a chance to vote on if bakrdz had been part of the original process.

In this case I would not consider the enhanced version as changing the essential elements and layout of the logo. Same design with a bit more punch and a whole lot more captivating. Arguably a case could be made to the contrary, that could open that can, but a carefully worded referendum vote on “varients” could mitigate that scenario.

[seldom|seen]

T-Shirts OK, they are not quite the same. The versions I’m suggesting are those on the T-Shirts, not the background image which is slightly unbalanced.

Bakrdz did a nice job with the modifications and it seems not only a shame to not adopt these, but also a something of a disconnect between branded material being worn by some geocachers and the site’s version.

[seldom|seen]

@Lostby7 wrote:

What does the “full color” image look like? Is that the image on the background of the site?

Yes, the background version that was updated by BakRdz for the Campout T-Shirts. This link shows both the 4 color and one color version, the later of which could be made into a nice 2 color version as well.

[seldom|seen]

@Team Black-Cat wrote:

My apologies to your sense of aesthetics. Since you “don’t get involved with anything design or graphics related anymore when it comes to the WGA”, we mere amateurs had to go it alone.
Just curious… did we do ANYTHING right?

From a coding and functionality standpoint, the WGA site is head and shoulders above any other geocaching site in the region. I’m not an avid enough cacher to know what geocaching sites looks like in every state, (I’m sure some of you do) but I’d imagine this one would get high marks for usability and rank near the top of the list.

I hope everyone can appreciate that my comments were in response the many glowing posts before mine about the “look” of the site, NOT the work behind it or the commendable efforts of the TBC who took on the onerous task of revamping code in an arcane framework. It certainly was not my intent to heckle his efforts or the efforts of anyone else on the committee who are taking steps to improve the usability of the site.

My comments were based on my own initial and internal reaction when I first saw the changes which was entirely opposite of everyone who posted previously, even among posts about eye-strain. On re-read, they were a bit harsh in wording but the sentiment remains the same.

As I told TBC in a PM, it’s easy for me to call out from the sidelines when I’m not in the game, it’s a hell of a lot harder when you’re on the field. I think we’d all agree that the recent efforts by the WGA to improve this site and many of aspects of the game as it’s played in the state, are laudable.

But, if it’s all the same, I’m gonna stay in the stands and heckle. Hell, that’s my MO anyway. Besides, I tried playing here a couple times before, got burned, and have accepted that I’m just not a good team player. And, if you got a whole crowd cheering for you, it’s easy to let the loudmouth get drowned out in all the noise…

[seldom|seen]

@gotta run wrote:

Or am I just all wet?… 🙂

Far from it and there isn’t a thing I’d add to your initial summary. The game is supposed to be fun. The definition of fun is subjective, but how much fun can repetitive scribblings on repetitive placements really be, even if you are a power cacher? I try to make every cache “fun” and that means making every one a unique and memorable experience for those whose choose to do them. I’ve also made it wuite clear to those who don’t like my style, “ignore them and move along, you won’t get anything out it the experience anyway”.

I’ve been making all these same arguments over the past couple of years and thankfully how found ways around the restrictive guidelines like making non-GPS related puzzles publishable simply by adding a GPS necessary WP to the listing. I choose not to let the limitations limit me, as many know, and while this occasionally leads to frustration and confusion by cachers unfamiliar with my style, others who are familiar are willing and eager to deal with whatever comes at them from an S|S placement for the stories they can tell after.

I will never understand the appeal of doing more than a couple dozen caches in a day and am pretty darn comfortable and happy getting one a day or whatever my rate is these days.

[seldom|seen]

I don’t know what to say without mollifying my reputation as being full of myself and having something of an ego. I guess I just have to accept it.

First, my apologies to anyone whom I might offend, no doubt I will. All of us appriciate the efforts of any WGA volunteer and know how precious that time is. Consider it constructive criticism from a graphic and web designer whose been around the block a few times…

http://www.foxcitieseye.com/
http://www.peakperformancefoxvalley.com/

I find it amazing the glitz and glitter to dress a site up STILL solicits this much positive feedback from the community even as some complain of eye-strain. From the drab, poorly kerned and hard to differentiate title of the header to the distracting toss-away background and amateur-looking (sorry, it is) navigation bar, this site has not improved from my standpoint. It is harder to look at and if I wasn’t already familiar with the layout I would have a hard time moving from navigation anchors to sub-navigation options, knowing I was picking the right places to go.

On a positive note, I think the changes to the primary navigation help. But, I would vastly simplify the graphics and dial the whole thing back a bit from a contrast standpoint, taking my queues from GC.com whose site developers understand the importance of readability and quite (white) space.

But that’s me and I know I am a minority of one as I have voiced professional opinions on these topics before without being heard and expect the same here. It’s why I don’t get involved with anything design or graphics related anymore when it comes to the WGA.

Let the snipping begin…

[seldom|seen]

@huffinpuffin2 wrote:

[seldom|seen]

2006 Cooper S, British racing green, white stripes and roof.

[seldom|seen]

I suppose as an owner of a mini Cooper I should get in on this thingy…

[seldom|seen]

@gotta run wrote:

@seldom|seen wrote:

At that point you simply have to step back and appreciate the game for what it is, a very fluid ever-changing, never-know-what-to-expect experience, rewarding you primarily for what YOU got out of it.

Wow, you have mellowed in your old age, old man!

Yes, soloist, I have. It’s been one hell-of-a year for me and this sport. You know how it started and as it’s coming to a close know how it is ending. What else is there to do but look for all the bright spots in between!

I also have a cache or two built around other caches and it can be a little problematic when names change or caches get archived, but I learned to roll with it. I do have to agree with -cheeto- on this one as well in his summary of ownership. You’ll never please everyone and it only takes one miffed cacher to soil your reputation. I think anyone that’s been at if for a while, especially if you are vocal, develops some thick skin… or is that Roacia?

I have been letting go of my frustrations. Meditation helps. It is still hard for me to let caches go and harder still to see caches that I’ve adopted out get archived for inactivity (Bueler… Beuler…?).

Thanks to any cachers who provided incentive to keep me at it in 2010. Lots to look forward to next year, including some new fun tribute caches and a rather lonely cache I’ve got my eye on…

[seldom|seen]

@labrat_wr wrote:

I had an ammo can go missing during this years bow season. Funniest part was that they left the contents of the can hidden in the spot.
I was upset that they took the can but relieved that they left the swag bag with the log book and the trackable.

too bad that there are folks that won’t honor the stash note and leave it there.

It’s odd what some people do. I just found one of gotta_run’s that I am guessing was a matchstick container with the last log in early April. After looking for a while where I thought it would be, I was about to go back to the car to check my log sheets when I looked down at my feet to discover an Old Milwaukee Beer can with a little roll of paper sticking out of it. I thought, “no way is that a log sheet!”, but sure enough it was the log, very dry and clean with logs from the spring, sitting out in the open in a beer can. Even though the cache hadn’t been found for more that half a year, I somehow managed to find it a day or two after a muggle decided to grab the container and, in a gesture of good will maybe?, left the log sheet behind, in the throat of a beer can no less!

[seldom|seen]

@gotta run wrote:

Keeping in mind that stats are meaningless, it’s not about the numbers, yada yada yada…

This is very frustrating when COs put out a whopper of a D5 puzzle and we bust our humps solving it, only to see the CO decide a few months later to put in hints and cut the D in half. 😥

Yeah yeah, it doesn’t matter, but I like having those 5s on the grid, what can I say? So it would be nice to lock those at a point in time.

I wonder if that suggestion has been on the groundspeak feedback feature.

Good thing I don’t play much or worry about challenges like the Well Rounded ones, or I could see this being frustrating.

Owning so many caches, there are times when I adjust mine a little if there is something very off with the ratings based on find logs. Sometimes a puzzle that looks like a 2 to me ends up being a 4 or a 5.

But, because I know lots of caches DO take part in those challenges, I DO try to leave my ratings stand as I publish them, no matter what the seasonal effect might be. I also try to minimize that effect by making most winder friendly. If they aren’t I will try to make that known in the listing. Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to continually adjust ratings based on seasonal changes. Pick an averaged T rating and stick with it. “What about an island cache?”, you ask. Well, I also don’t think there are very many TRUE 5T/5D caches around, ones that REQUIRE special equipment. Even Broken Dam and Nifty Fifty can be had without scuba gear.

To GR’s point though, his contention has nothing to do with seasonal T ratings, but more to do with adjusting the puzzles D rating after the cache has been published for a while, and gets Lonely at which point a CO owner might elect to add some hints and drop the difficulty. It’s probably a separate topic actually. But since we’re here, this happens a lot in the area with many of the more difficult puzzles because area CO’s want more visits. Again personally, I don’t really care if mine only get 2-3 visits, ever. Those 2 or 3 will be remembered. But I can empathize with others who make a puzzle and want more solves and can understand the conundrum this creates.

If you bust your head on a 5D puzzle and are the only one to crack it in 6 months, only to discover some time down the road that a new batch of clues are added – clues which outright spell out the solve – and the D rating is cut in half leading to lots of new finds, well it will certainly cheapens your 5D effort, Well Rounded Cacher slot notwithstanding. it’s the same feeling you get when you see logs on difficult cachers where you know not everyone had to go the distance to get the smiley.

At that point you simply have to step back and appreciate the game for what it is, a very fluid ever-changing, never-know-what-to-expect experience, rewarding you primarily for what YOU got out of it. So, if you solved a D5 and no one else did, you still solved a D5. I know, I’m speaking to the choir, soloist actually, who finds himself telling me this same thing quite frequently 😉

[Author]

Posts