[Team Deejay]

@jenhen1 wrote:

I’m tellin’ ya, if Groundspeak doesn’t adjust their cache hiding guidelines and their review process, law enforcement and local legislation will. There is absolutely no way a cache placed on the easement in front of a homeowner’s property should EVER be approved unless that specific homeowner is the cache placer. (and even that is sketchy)

Question: Is there a way our state association could set up our own set of placement guidelines and review caches based on Wisconsin’s own set of guidelines? Basically telling Groundspeak that what’s considered appropriate placement by you guys up in Seattle might not be in the best interest of us cachers here in Wisconsin. We could even have input from local law enforcement to come up with a mutually agreeable set. That way when Groundspeak objects we can at least say that law enforcement prefers it this way in Wisconsin.

Unfortunately, this can’t happen either. We can have local guidelines if they are required by law, ordinance, or administrative rule, but not just because we think we know better or that someone prefers it. Remember that we have to balance both sides of the equation as well. Apparently the hiders think that this is the most brilliant idea in the world, and they feel picked on when we try to get them to move their placement. The funny thing is that the cache that was archived by Groundspeak was not at all the worst example of these hides. It was in a guardrail at a dead end, with the other side of the guardrail being railroad property. The complaining homeowner had to be on either side of the street. I’m sure we have all found caches like this, and most of us have probably placed one or two.

As a reviewer, I cringe every time I see the word “stealth” in a cache listing. This almost always means that the cache is hidden in a public place, often without permission. As a player, I make it a point not to be “stealthy” when seeking caches, inviting neighborhood children, nearby homeowners, etc to be in on the secret. Most homeowners don’t mind and like the idea, but for those that do object, I let them know the proper procedure to get the cache archived (that would be “email me”, but I obviously just take care of it for them.) You guys can also just take care of it for them, by sending me an email indicating you had an issue with a property owner or other concerned party.

[Team Deejay]

@gotta run wrote:

I put part of the blame for this on the reviewer system (not individual reviewers). Groundspeak likes to have it both ways–reviewers to look at caches so they have control over the game, but then the disclaimer that they are just a bulletin board service and have no liability for cache placements.

But unfortunately, reviewers have, or seem to have, no real power when it comes to making decisions to improve the quality of the game. Yes, it’s true that one man’s junk is another man’s treasure, but is anyone arguing that these curbside caches are quality hides?

So what happens is new people come into the game, naturally gravitate toward easier caches to start, then say “gee, these curbsiders must be what caching is all about, so let me place some.” And so the cycle of crap continues.

We are explicitly instructed not to consider the “quality” of hides, as this considered to be “not objective”. And, while this particular case is a fairly new hider, there are several very experienced hiders doing virtually the same thing.

With regard to the handicapped issue, there is nothing wrong with “low terrain” or urban caches. The problem lies with boring, residential locations.

[Team Deejay]

Well, to get the geocaches into your GPS, you don’t need anything. Your Oregon acts as an external drive, so just plug it into the computer and copy the GPX file into the proper directory ( GarminGPX ) using the standard Mac file transfer, just like you would copy a file to a thumb drive.

Getting your “field notes” back into the system is even simpler. Just create your field notes in the field while you are caching. When you get back to a computer, plug your unit into the computer (which should again pick it up as an external drive), then point your browser to http://www.geocaching.com/my/uploadfieldnotes.aspx and follow the instructions on the page for Garmin GPS units.

[Team Deejay]

The problem is that, from a guidelines perspective, there really isn’t a permission issue involved. Assuming the cache is very close to a sidewalk or roadway, it is either on public land or on an area with a presumption of public access. Ignoring the problem caches won’t solve the problem. (Didn’t your mother tell you that?) What we need is for the more experienced folks in the area to try to guide the new hider into “better behavior”. Might not work, but it is about the only option we have.

For those who don’t know what this is really all about, there have been quite a number of new hides in the Appleton area (mostly Appleton, Kimberly, and Combined Locks) which are placed in residential neighborhoods between the sidewalk and the street. These are not like the roadside hides you find in more rural parts of the state, but right by someone’s house. We tend to see 20 to 30 of these submitted at a time, many of which are not publishable for a variety of reasons, but some do make it through. These are extremely annoying for us to review, as we are really dependent on the accuracy of online mapping calibration, and a coordinate error of 0.003 can put the location on someone’s front porch. I don’t like it, but I can’t do anything about it officially.

I should note that we are starting to see a few problems with roadside caches in general (signs, guardrails, culverts, roadside trees, etc.) Often, a person’s property line extends right to the roadway, so the stop sign or culvert you are using for a hide is actually on their property. This situation happens when a road is widened after the easements and property lines are set. And even if it is not their property, many property owners react as if it is. As always, it is important to know who’s property you are placing a cache on and to have permission for finders to be there. If you encounter angry property owners or land managers when finding caches, please be polite, leave as soon as possible, and let a reviewer know so that we can shutdown the cache. If the property owner wants to confiscate the container, please let them, but explain that a missing container will probably cause additional damage, and it would be better to leave it in place until it is officially shutdown.

As far as parking lot caches promoting businesses, either we just missed it, or the owner changed the listing after we published it. Feel free to send me the GC code of the cache you feel is commercial and I will handle the problem. Note that just being in a parking lot doesn’t make it commercial (according to the guidelines), but extolling the virtues of local merchants is not permitted without formal permission from Groundspeak. That said, they don’t have this rule to protect you from ads. They just want to get paid if people want to advertise on their site!

[Team Deejay]

@JimandLinda wrote:

A “Chirp” cache will be 5*, since special equipment is needed for finding it.
There is one out CJ’s way that is a Chirp, and 2 by Utely Quarry near Fairwater.

Actually there is no requirement for a 5 star terrain for a Chirp, just the required attribute. (I lost that argument, by the way…)

[Team Deejay]

I lined up another volunteer for you. Sandy, a Groundspeak lackey, wants to volunteer to be a pancake flipper.

[Team Deejay]

@RSplash40 wrote:

Deejay you have to be joking us…

I wish I was.

[Team Deejay]

I’m not a Mac expert, but I believe all the Oregon models use a standard USB protocol, which is compatible with almost all Macs (OK, if you have one of the old “toaster” Macs, maybe not, but…) Where you might run into some issues would be trying use third party map downloads, which might not have a Mac installer available (and this would apply to ALL Oregons). Also, I have heard that Garmin doesn’t provide downloads of the beta firmware in Mac compatible form, so if you really want to be a guinea pig for Garmin, you might have to get a friend to download and install it for you. Otherwise, your Mac should be good.

[Team Deejay]

As reviewers, we have been discussing the recent changes regarding the type of person entering geocaching. Up until recently, people had to make a bit of a financial commitment to start playing, because they at least had to buy a GPS unit. Now, we have people starting on a whim, using a free app on a smart phone. And many of these folks haven’t bothered to learn the etiquette, history, or rules of the game, so you are going to get more one word logs, unsealed containers, and, yes, noncompletion of EC/Virt requirements. Many of these folks are gone as quickly as they get started, on to the “next big thing”, but they get replaced by a new set of folks with the same attitude.

By the way, you really don’t want to see some of the submissions we get. Example:
Rvr: Uh, you say your cache is in a Door county park, but the location is in Lake Michigan. I noticed that you entered the coordinates as 45 00.000, 87 00.000. Did you forget to enter the minutes of the coordinates?

New hider: What do you mean, minutes?

Rvr: The last 5 digits of the coordinates. You have all zeros.

New hider: You mean we need to record the coordinates down to the minutes? That stinks…

[Team Deejay]

I will sign up for cash/ticket sales.

[Team Deejay]

You will drive yourself to drink if you spend time trying to understand the marketing decisions of Garmin. To avoid this kind of silliness, my next GPS will probably be a Delorme.

[Team Deejay]

Actually, Brian is having an issue with uploading the file, but it shouldn’t be too much longer.

[Team Deejay]

I almost hate to ask this, but did you look at the standard PQ page? There are icons to the left of the pocket query listing. The first icon “previews” the PQ in a list, which second “previews” it in a map. I find this very useful (much better than the beta maps method.) Of course, who knows how long this will be available?

[Team Deejay]

Well, after about 10 unreturned phone calls from the Summerfest guy, we are going to have to call this a “no go” for this year. We can try again next year if they want us to. What I’ve learned from this is that we need to set up ALL the details with these people at least 4 weeks before the event, since they become unreachable as the event gets closer.

[Team Deejay]

The only thing I have taken is a lanyard, which I traded for a dollar.

Note that the trade even rule does not apply to trackables, as you are not actually taking them, you are MOVING them. Trackables (with some exceptions) are intended to travel, they are NOT a trade item. That said, I only move trackables in 3 circumstances:

1. Trackable has very specific mission that I can help it achieve
2. Geocoins left in very easy urban caches (prone to theft)
3. Trackables in caches which are rarely found

Otherwise, I’d rather not move them, but instead leave them for newer folks to find and enjoy.

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