[Wis Kid]

Thanks for the promo, Miata. My eyeballs are bleary from processing all these archives.

There seems to be rescues needed everywhere except extreme NW Wisconsin (nice job up there, guys!). And don’t feel like you need to have found the cache before to do a rescue. Just be sure to do a really complete search before giving up.

[Wis Kid]

With the increase in the number of Earthcaches being submitted, it is worthwhile to review the submittal process. Unlike every other type of geocache, once you submit an earthcache, it is not possible to edit your submission until it is published. This means that you need to be careful to follow all the rules when you are placing an Earthcache in an SNA. Be sure to start the process with an email to Thomas Meyer at the DNR BEFORE you submit the cache, wait for the response, and then be sure to submit the notification form and INCLUDE THE BOILERPLATE TEXT in the cache description. Otherwise, we get stuck in a situation where the cache is not publishable, yet we cannot edit it without publishing. I’m talking with the Earthcache people to hopefully get them to add an edit feature to their website, but I wouldn’t hold your breath for this.

If you want to review the earthcache/offset cache submission process, see this post:
http://wi-geocaching.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=47593#47593

[Wis Kid]

Actually, the reason the Fox 6 event is not listed is because they didn’t submit it. If you reread the thread, you will see that they specifically stated that they would not submit it as an event to the website. Nothing sinister going on here.

As far as fees go, you can always charge fees for expenses for a geocaching event. What is more questionable is having an event at a site which charges fees. Much like a geocache, it is acceptable to have an event in a public park which charges a user fee to get in, like the Mosquito Brook Nature Center. What you cannot do is hold an event at a private facility, like, for example, Noah’s Ark, which charges admission. You can obviously hold an event at a place which charges for food, but this is an exception. Private campgrounds which allow non-campers admission would be ok, but not places where they charge just to come on the property. Semiprivate locations (like the Schlitz Audubon Center) are very tricky. We would treat them on a case by case basis. I think we would generally look favorably on such a location.

So, what if you actually want to have a group geocaching outing to Noah’s Ark? You can’t, unless you are clever. While you can’t technically have a water sliding event there, you could have a Geocaching Pep Rally in the Noah’s Ark parking lot (free admission if I recall correctly) for say 30 minutes. Everybody signs the log, says “Yea, Rah, Geocaching”, and geogabs for the remaining time. If, after the 30 minutes are over, everyone decides to go ride the water slides, well, that has nothing to do with the event. You just can’t require that people pay the admission fee.

This same approach would apply to your Corn Maze question. Have a dinner event at a nearby restaurant. If everyone goes to the corn maze afterwards, well, so be it.

Please don’t send me hate mail about how illogical these rules are. These are gc.com rules, not mine. The bottom line is that I never reject an event outright, but try to work with the placer to bring their idea within the rules. Basically, an event needs to be a gathering of geocachers, organized by geocachers, and attended by geocachers. Like any other cache, the cache page cannot be used to promote a commercial enterprise (unless you get permission from Groundspeak first). It can’t be tacked onto something else (like an air show or an orienteering meet), and it can’t JUST be a group cache hunt (although you can have a geocaching pep rally at a park and ride lot and then if everybody just decides they want to go hunt caches afterwards, this is ok. I just report the rules, I don’t make em up!) 😈 🙄

[Wis Kid]

Assuming he didn’t actually go there (this is the only log so far in Wisconsin), you would be within your rights to delete his log or ask him to delete his log. He is probably engaging in a process call Armchair Geocaching, solving the questions for virtuals through internet searches (or other means). This practice is one of the reasons that virtual caches are no longer listed. Regardless of what you do with this log, please visit the site and determine a more appropriate question which cannot be found through an internet search. Note that information on the historical marker is listed verbatim on the Wisconsin Historical Society website. Perhaps you need to just require a photo be taken at the site, or measure the distance between the marker and the road, or count the fenceposts between the marker and the nearest crossroad. You get the idea. You could also convert this into an offset cache if you want. Just drop me a line if this is your preferred approach.

Remember that guidelines for virtuals require that the questions answered confirm that the person actually visited the site. Unfortunately this one doesn’t pass the test anymore, thanks to our friends at the WHS.

[Wis Kid]

Thanks Renee. By some sort of miracle, the only cache caught in the spill is Alan Kulwicki Memorial Cache in Kulwicki Park. Uncle Fun has already disabled that one. If you want to be EXTRA safe or have uncontrollable small children or dogs, you might want to avoid Packer War Heroes and Madison Park. Both of those are near, but not in, the contaminated areas. I have asked the owners of these caches to check to see if the caches are still accessible. If you are planning on caching in Grant, Madison, or Sheridan Park, I would recommend that you print out a map of the affected areas from: http://www.countyparks.com

Breaking news is that there is another area of contamination in the Root River Parkway. It is a fairly small area in the region South of Grange, and North of College. There are no geocaches in the affected area, but if you take a REALLY dumb approach to Where The Deer Hide 2, you might think of passing through the area. If you are seeking this cache anytime soon, here is a free hint. USE A BRIDGE! (or better yet, just start on the right side of the river in the first place.) Note that the cache is nowhere near the contaminated area.

Let me know if you run into other problems related to this hazard, but for now, I think they (and we) have it all under control.

[Wis Kid]

I think there is room for lots of different geocaching experiences out there. In our state, we have underwater caches, island caches, “hanging off the edge of a footbridge over a river like an insane monkey” caches, and yes, tree climbing caches. All of these have some element of danger in seeking them.

It sounds like the cache owner did a good job of making it clear that climbing was required and used the proper terrain/difficulty. If the tree is not appropriate for climbing, as would be demonstrated by lots of broken branches, you should first try to contact the owner to persuade him to move the cache to a different tree. If he isn’t responsive, send me an email. If he responds that he has checked out the tree and feels that it is still appropriate, well, the cache doesn’t violate any guidelines, so there isn’t much we can do about it. Nearly everyone I have met during geocaching has been friendly and willing to listen, and most have been reasonable. Give them a chance to respond. I think you will be surprised.

Note: If the cache is indeed on private property, that is different and unrelated to the danger aspect. The county plat books and GIS systems can help you make this determination.

[Wis Kid]

Everything Jeff states is correct, but people should understand that we now have a process for reviewing “long disabled” caches. Tie currently handles the “bad guy” role of informing the cache owners that they have a limited time to get their disabled caches back on line. I can tell you that this particular cache hasn’t made it into the list yet. We are currently prioritizing caches that are 2 months disabled (or more). But if it stays disabled much longer, it WILL hit the list.

That said, there is really no reason to put an SBA on a disabled cache, as it is going to get addressed by the standard process. While it might not hurt if the hider is truly out of geocaching, someone who disabled the cache less than 3 months ago is very likely to be active and is also likely to be offended by your SBA logs. My experience has been that it is generally better not to make enemies unnecessarily.

There are several types of circumstances where an SBA log is appropriate (These are real examples)

– Cache is placed in the hider’s front yard, who then moves away without disabling or archiving the cache. (We have a name for people who do this!)

– Cache is accidentally hidden on private property, and law enforcement is called to investigate a finder’s trespassing.

– Cache is placed on a highway bridge that somehow slipped through the review process.

– Cache is placed in violation of the land managers geocaching policy and they are asking for it to be removed.

If you find a situation like this on an active cache, please contact the owner AND post an SBA. These situations require quick action. In less dire circumstances, it is not really necessary to post an SBA. Now if you have tried to contact the owner multiple times with no response, have posted no finds, and needs maintenance logs without response, and generally made lots of efforts to resolve the problem with the owner, you might want to post an SBA on an active cache. Normally, it doesn’t have to go that far.

[Wis Kid]

@lee42048 wrote:

Does anyone know if Milwaukee Public Schools have any cache placement rules for their property?

I don’t know if MPS specifically has rules, but if you want to place a cache on school property, you need to get formal permission from the appropriate school official. We let the school determine how close is too close, but you need to be at least 150 feet away from any buildings. You would be expected to provide name, title and contact info for whoever provides permission, hours when the cache would be available, and parking coordinates. We would also expect that you would provide your own contact information to the school in case the cache you place is causing any issues.

[Wis Kid]

bnb is right, but be careful. I believe the cheapest explorist that you can download to is the 210. You can download to all the Garmin etrex models, but the plain yellow one does not come with a cable and you can only buy a serial (non-USB) cable, so if your computer doesn’t have a serial port, you have to go through some rigamarole to convert to serial from USB. You can pick up a third party cable for the etrex for around $10 on eBay. I believe the etrex Legend does come with a cable and is quite a bit nicer and only costs about $30 more, so with the added cost of the cable, ol’ yeller isn’t so much of a bargain. Also, Garmin does make a few GPSs without computer interface, (Geko 101 for example), so double check this before you buy. But there is no need to buy an advanced unit if all you want is a computer interface.

[Wis Kid]

I know there is one in the state at least. He was last seen hiding out in Waukesha County.

[Wis Kid]

@PCFrog wrote:

@Team Deejay wrote:

That said, here is a list of ways to delay (or completely prevent) getting your cache listed:

• Place your cache on private property and don’t provide contact info for the property owner on the cache listing

Avoid all this stuff and your caches should just fly right through the review process.

I know providing names of the person who own or gave permission makes since and have done so on my own caches. The thing that I always thought was odd is the fact some have pointed out those cachers don’t like their real names used and like the anonymity of the user name. Some cachers mentioned getting calls from people looking their number up or a possible stalker tracking down their kids and such.

I do know why we provided that info, just incase a cacher needs to provided such information to law enforcement or others.

I ask this not to cause an uproar or anything but to point out that in no way would I want to state my name or contact info on GC.com other than my email, yet we provided such information about the property owners who gave us permission to put a cache on thier land.

My point here is then why is it ok to list these owners’ names or DNR personnel names in the listing?

Food for thought….

Starting with the easy part first. We list the DNR personnel name because the DNR says we have to.

As far as private property goes, imagine you print out a cache listing, then you go hunting for the cache on some lonely country road around Warrens. The cache listing says it is on private property, but gives no other contact info. As you begin searching the pine tree closest to ground zero, you hear “Turn around slowly and keep your hands visible”. It turns out you are at the wrong place (the cache placers coordinates were only off by 5000 feet) and the property owner has called the local sheriff. You have no name, no address, and no contact information for the person giving permission. What do you think the chances are that you won’t be cited or arrested for trespassing?

Most of the private property caches are either on business property or in residential neighborhoods. On the business property, we don’t want people getting stopped by the police or security guards if no permission was given, so we have to ask for the contact info. I just published a cache GC132WG near Beloit where this was necessary. (Note that I am not responsible for the spelling and grammar on this listing!) In residential neighborhoods, the risk is much greater that people will end up in someone’s backyard accidentally, so here we are looking not only for a contact but also some certain way for a finder to know they are at the right house. Address would be the most popular choice, but “ours is the lime green doublewide with pink shutters and a pair of pitbulls roaming the yard” would be ok as well, assuming that accurately describes your house and no other house nearby matches the description. Also note that there is no requirement that anyone place a cache on private property (their own or someone else’s). If you don’t want your name on a cache listing, just avoid listing a cache on your property.

[Wis Kid]

@cheezehead wrote:

I would like to the listed coordinates for a mystery cache at a trail head sign. The trail head sign is within 528 feet a mystery cache location.

If you have not done this mystery cache, there is no way of knowing it’s there.

The reviewers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 metres) of another cache may not be published on the site. This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline,

So the way I read that, I should be able to list the the trail head starting point, right?

The final would be about a mile or so from the location of the trail head location, with other listed wayponts.

Which brings me to my next question, do stages and waypoints need to also be 528 feet from a cache? If I where to use some sort of waytag, would it have to be out of the 528 feet radius?

or does this answer my questions?

Answer #1 – The cache saturation does not apply to parking coordinates, trailheads, answer to a question or reference point waypoints. It DOES apply to stages of a multicache and final location waypoints. So you can mark your trailhead wherever you want. (Just don’t put a tag on the trailhead sign.)

Answer #2 – If you use a tag or other physical waypoint, you need it to be 528 feet away from all other caches, stages of a multicache waypoints, and final location waypoints. These need to be listed as “stages of a multicache” or “final location” as appropriate. The distance rule does NOT apply to waypoints of the same cache.

Answer #2.5 – If you use a virtual stage for a waypoint (not a tag, container, etc.), you do NOT need to keep this away from other stuff, provided you do not call it a “stage of a multicache” in your additional waypoints listing. “Question to Answer” or “Reference point” are both ok. If you decided to call the waypoint a “stage of a multicache”, you will prevent anyone else from placing a cache or waypoint within 528 feet of this location and prevent you from placing it within 528 feet of any other cache or waypoint. It is the choice of the owner whether to call a virtual waypoint a “stage of a multicache” or not. Other cache placers who try to badger another owner into changing the type of their virtual waypoints will be shot at sunrise. (Ok, I made up that last part. 😀 Just checking to see if you were listening!)

Answer #2.75 – The listed coordinates of a multicache is assumed to be a physical stage and subject to distance requirements, regardless of whether it is really virtual or not. The listed coordinates of an unknown cache is assumed to be a bogus location not subject to the distance unless explicitly noted (and we might still miss it anyway, so don’t make hide your mystery cache at the listed coordinates). If you absolutely have to place your mystery cache as the listed coordinates (and want to go through the headaches of me asking you why), please create an additional waypoint for the final location at the same spot.

Note that a law degree is not required to be a reviewer, it is only recommended.

[Wis Kid]

Feel free to ask any “Reviewer questions” in either the General or Help forums. We monitor the local forums regularly.

[Wis Kid]

The answer to the question you asked is that virtual caches are no longer allowed on geocaching.com. The answer to the question you were trying to ask is, if you want to post an event cache, it must be an event that will stand on its own, not part of another event. So, if you want to host a meet and greet at a nearby restaurant and suggest that after the meeting people might want to check out the nearby radio exhibit, that would be ok, assuming you are a geocacher and people don’t HAVE to go to the radio exhibit to log the event. You will have to be very careful as to how you word all this, due to restrictions on commercialism, solicitations, promotions, and agendas on cache listings. If you want to make this event a promotion for the event, you will need to get this approved by Groundspeak in advance of listing the cache. Send an email to [email protected] to ask for permission. I wouldn’t expect a positive answer, but it can’t hurt to ask.

[Author]

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